The Living Daylights (1987) - Action, Adventure, Thriller

Hohum Score



James Bond is sent to investigate a KGB policy to kill all enemy spies and uncovers an arms deal that potentially has major global ramifications.

IMDB: 6.7
Director: John Glen
Stars: Timothy Dalton, Maryam d'Abo
Length: 130 Minutes
PG Rating: PG
Reviews: 31 out of 285 found boring (10.87%)

One-line Reviews (223)

"The Living Daylights" is a highly entertaining film despite its flaws, and quickly buries all that did not work in the Moore movies.

That said, as ever with 007's cinematic efforts, the film is enjoyable and satisfying, and I am looking forward to checking out Dalton's second attempt.

John Barry keeps things moving well with an upbeat, riveting score.

Better yet, the movie moves on to capture the essence of the terrific Ian Fleming short story "The Living Daylights" in a very clever and gripping way, even inserting a vague sense of ennui that characterized Fleming's later period: "Tell M what you want," Bond tells an obstreperous colleague named Saunders.

Unfortunately, said leading lady is the bland and utterly lifeless Maryam D'Abo, who sports no distinctive personality whatsoever.

A more darker Bond and it's a entertaining watch .

A-ha's synthpop title song is one of the most memorable, the locations are exotic, the mad Russian villain is mad and Russian, the Bond girl is not just helpless and pretty but gets to kill some bad guys of her own, and instead of the usual dull "countdown climax" we get a much more exciting airplane finale.

We've all been lucky to have entertaining people who have been James Bond.

It's the only one that really comes close to "From Russia with Love", being a great blend of intense investigation thriller and brilliant action.

Sinister Plot: In a plot that is a bit hard to follow, arms and/or diamonds and/or drugs are being sold and/or bought and/or traded to finance and/or battle the freedom fighters of Afghanistan.

Timothy Dalton as agent 007 has many exciting adventures in Afghanistan, Austria, Czechoslovakia and Russia before he is able to control his enemies.

Garbled and confusing Bond movie (spoilers) .

He is just another pointless villain.

The film starts out well, with the teaser sequence introducing our new Bond in an exciting chase with an assassin, roaring through the Gibraltar location.

Sure, there are 3 decent set pieces and it has some interesting plot points and a good henchman, but ultimately this is one of the hardest Bond films to sit through since it's so boring.

However, for the next 75 minutes, it is pretty boring.

However, Overall it is a Thrilling Cold-War Finale.

Thomas Wheatley is also enjoyable as Bond's uptight fellow agent Saunders.

No Bond car is complete without the extras, and the Vantage is no different with, Laser Cutters in the wheel caps, HUD display in the windscreen, missiles hidden behind the headlights, Tyre Sikes and a Jet Thrust Booster, that are all used in just about the most thrilling car chase in the entire series where Bond casually works his way through the multitude of goodies all the while avoiding being blown up by mortars.

The plot of this movie is very good, but it has an extremely slow pacing, d'Abo doesn't have the presence of a good Bond girl, and the villains are poorly-defined and overplayed.

That one is actually enjoyable.

The New James Bond, Living On The Edge.

I also liked very much the slightly off-beam departure from the norm, the quirky but very exciting Licence to Kill which was a very telling exhibition of Bond losing his temper with his boss for once and going his own way to get revenge plus some particularly interesting settings and a neat plot.

This was clearly a return to the roots of Bond and it showed perfectly that a Bond film could be both interesting and entertaining.

Can you say TOO intense.

The story is very dry and I had trouble staying interested in it.

The idea of Bond travelling across the globe, facing enemies and unexpected allies the world over, is one that has made the series famous.

After this the film goes slowly downhill and becomes more a action packed late eighties adventure.

Say what you will about the later Roger Moore films, but they were always consistently enjoyable, this movie did have me yearning for more than just dialogue to happen quite often.

Koskov and Whitaker are both unmenacing and uninteresting.

The film is too long and I am sorry to say this: Even though Dalton looks like Bond, he is not Bond.

He makes for a fascinating character as he is one of Bond's more unsavoury allies.

It opens promisingly pre-credits but plumbs depths of banality thereafter.

My favorite part is the climax on the plane, where Bond must deal with just about everything (an enemy henchman, a open hatch, a bomb, an empty fuel tank).

Boring .

As boring a Bond movie as I can remember.

After a stunning opening in Gibraltar where a training mission for the 00's is brutally interrupted by actual death, the film proper begins with Bond supervising the defection of top K.

The high tension, action packed exciting climax, in which Bond and the villain fight in the cargo hold of a plane, features some fantastic stuntwork and effects.

This one however is completely uninteresting.

With it being a Bond movie it's still mostly entertaining, and thanks to its current affairs based plot, a little informative too, just very middle of the road to say the least.

That said, the movie is entertaining, has a lot of life, and showcases Dalton's abilities nicely.

But once that's over, the movie gets very entertaining again and has some great fights between Bond and the main villains.

" One of the agents happens to be 007, and what we get next is one of the most exciting and perfectly sustained action sequences to feature in a Bond film in a good long while.

The main problem is how dull it is and it completely lacks flair.

enjoyable bond with Dalton.

Action Packed, Reasonably Entertaining, .

Not the best of the Bonds, but an entertaining movie, nonetheless.

A newer, meaner Bond, but still entertaining.

We have a gadget-laden Aston Martin as well as a few other clever gadgets, great battle sequences, and intense moments.

The story builds deliberately, and just when we think we have figured it out, Whitaker mentions something completely unexpected, further complicating the matter.

The last two Roger Moore films had been entertaining romps with a sense of style.

It's not even shoddy film-making, it's just bafflingly dull and uninteresting.

I could not list all the action sequences that thrill me the most because all of them are notable and entertaining in their grand invention.

It's just plain dull.

Some Bond s may feel uncomfortable with such a change, having been used to an entertaining romp of constant action, comedy and .

The main Bond girl feels like a human being but is a pretty uninteresting character while Lois Maxwell is missed as Moneypenny.

For example, the title sequence is very uninspiring as are the locations.

James Bond (Timothy Dalton) is living on the edge to stop an evil arms dealer from starting another world war.

This film outsmarts itself and in turn bores the audience with its overly complex plot.

This also has some sparkling actions scenes, from the thrilling opening pre-credits sequence, to the attack on the MI6 safehouse, to the final action scene in Afghanistan, with some thrillers inbetween.

Additionally, as the era of Dalton's Bond is often associated with grim brooding and excessive seriousness, it is easy to overlook the moments of humour which pepper the film, with such delightfully surreal touches as Bond's riding a cello case down a snowy mountainside as a means of escape, a villain using explosive milk bottles as assassination weapons, and the bizarrely twisted yet thrilling post-climax climax (amazingly, not a euphemism) offering welcome winks to the audience amidst the uncommonly credible exterior narrative.

Overall this is a underrated, cool, darker and entertaining Bond film that I thoroughly enjoyed.

Tim Dalton brings a very intense Bond to the screen and in this movie it works.

It's a pity that, technically proficient though this entry is, it is bogged down by poorly written villains, and an often garbled and confusing plot.

It's thrilling stuff, and Timothy Dalton carries the scene beautifully.

Riveting and fancy main titles by habitual Maurice Binder .

He was now going to be a violent, intense, conflicted soul.

The short two-film run of Timothy Dalton as James Bond started with a great bang in 1987 as the series got an adrenaline shot after Moore limped away from the series.

But the point here is high adventure and confusing you so much that you don't realize how ridiculous it all is, not the usual display of eye candy.

) It has one of the most exciting openings you'll see in a James Bond film.

The stunts and action are staged and executed fairly well, the direction is fairly assured, and overall, this is a really enjoyable, sadly underrated romp.

Other high points include the massive airfield battle between the Soviets and a band of Mujahedeen, a rousing pre-title sequence on the Rock of Gibraltar, and the requisite car chase, in which Bond evades Soviet border guards and light armor in a souped-up Aston Martin.

Dreary debut for Dalton .

The plot, an unintriguing yawn about arms-smuggling, would have seemed out of date in a TV episode of 'The Saint' 20 years previously.

Though Timothy Dalton could never replace Roger Moore for me as Bond, Moore never got to deal with someone as genuinely nuts as Joe Don Baker, arms dealer and pretentious military man to the extreme.

Every other car in the Bond movies, save the one in Goldfinger, is dull compared to this one.

The story is complex and intriguing, with characters that make you guess whether they are good or bad.

And who can forget the beautiful Maryam d'Abo playing the intriguing Kara Milovy.

Big crime, too, is having Felix Leiter finally return only for him to be underwritten and performed by a dull actor (John Terry).

This picture has an exciting prologue with some creative British professionalism in the stunts, also it contains two down and dirty fights, one with 007 and one with his co-workers.

Director John Glen's veteran experience with the series shows, he knows how to work the camera and create thrilling scenes.

I saw TLD opening day and was thrilled through the whole movie, from the fantastic dolly shot of Dalton's first appearance; the tough brutal fight scenes (probably the best in the series); the beautiful recreation of the original short story in the opening scenes (particularly Bond's disgust at shooting somebody into "strawberry jam"); the mix of genuine politics and espionage; John Glen's sturdy intense direction; John Barry's last (and effective) score; the unforced romance between Bond and Kira that's the most successful since OHMSS; the incredible battle from the airplane net; the care given to minor characters (note that bad ass kitchen fight between Necros and the unnamed agent); and with Dalton leading the way, probably the best ensemble acting in a Bond film.

Mention must also go to one of John Barry's most evocative scores, and the cinematography which really captures the exotic feel of the numerous locations involved.

A noxiously dull effort and a less than stellar start for Dalton.

And that's a shame, because when you really look at it, The Living Daylights is one of the most absorbing, entertaining, and (considering it's the 15th movie in the series) ORIGINAL Bond flicks ever made.

How fresh and exciting this is when compared to the previous entry.

The title song is a snappy little tune performed by the Top-40 Norwegian band called ah-ha.

I give the latter scene kudos for being one of the few times that an awe inspiring vehicular jump results in car being wrecked, as it surely would be in real life.

Great gags and action sequences woven through a detailed, complex (but in no way convoluted) story, which, unlike many Bond flicks, is quite unpredictable.

The destruction of the bridge is stunning, as is the fight between Bond and Necros aboard the plane.

This is a very exciting Bond film, which injects new life into a tired series at this point.

I liked how his character was unpredictable.

All of that makes for a very entertaining film.

However, many scenes are filled with an intriguing mood and Dalton undoubtedly delivers.

'The Living Daylights' might get boring for some.

Rating : 6 , well worth watching .

In spite of many misconceptions about Dalton's tenure in the tuxedo, his take was stripped back and closer to Fleming's literary source, his intense acting style ensuring Bond was getting back to the thriller realm.

It's full of breathtaking sequences - from skydiving onto the Rock of Gibraltar, to skiing down a mountain on a cello, to hanging onto a plane midair (side note - this scene is UNREAL).

Dalton is a clear attempt to bring some edge back to the character, which does work even though thanks to the pretty average script he's a little too bland overall.

The editing is excellent, with many of the slower moments being treated with a great deal of interest and the plot unwinds at just the right pace.

However, I will say that the film was not consistently entertaining, there were plenty of dull moments and parts that had me bored.

He is both believable and enjoyable to watch and the plot is much the same.

Worse than bad, dull .

It's very good the way he plays on the tune of Pal Waaktaar's eponymous title song for effect during suspenseful moments.

The Living Daylights is enjoyable despite its sprawling, convoluted plot and a weak contingent of villains (each flaw might explain the other).

The Living Daylights (1987) is Timothy Dalton's introduction to the Bond franchise and in hindsight is a far more engaging film than critics of the time gave it credit.

The drama is just as intense.

The story is weak even for a Bond movie and at times it is confusing.

Bond's introduction here is a back-to-basics infiltration exercise at a sleepy base, itself eventually coming to transform into a real-life plethora of betrayal; mistrust; espionage and cold blooded murder, something Bond is still ever-alert to foiling and does so in engaging, ruthless style with the aforementioned jeep escape: John Barry's "Exercise at Gibraltar" a pumping, pulsating orchestral track overlying proceedings.

Over-familiar plot about defecting Russian Generals induces a bit of a yawn factor and there's still a reliance on ridiculous gadgets that the last credible Bond - Mr George Lazenby - dispensed with over twenty years earlier.

They are all very well choreographed, and none are too long, too drawn out or suffer from any 'light hearted' comical moments.

In the end all you're left with is a puzzled, cold, and empty feeling.

The action is pretty realistic for the mid-'80s, but still very exciting.

The supporting cast all work well together (with the unfortunate exception of John Terry as Felix Leiter)and the globetrotting is extensive and fast paced.

One problem is the plot, which is too convoluted and becomes quite confusing by the time Bond and Kara reach Afghanistan.

I found Timothy Dalton to be way more enjoyable than Pierce Brosnan, and I like him better than Daniel Craig too.

In many ways this was a good thing, as the Bond films had become too dependent on formulaic plotting and villains, as well as an overdose of fatuous humour.

Sure Moore's films were fun, but they sure became tiresome and beyond silly.

Bond went from being charming, suave and lethal to being stuck-up, sanctimonious and tedious.

This first of two the Timothy Dalton 007 movies (let's not talk about his second round -- it was rather awful) is a very rounded, exciting and besides his cool British flair, sexy Bond movie ...

There is a decent battle in Afghanistan towards the end which is exciting.

Aside from the wonderful pre-credits teaser, we get a really exciting car chase in Bond's customized Aston Martin, complete with rockets, lasers, bulletproof glass and even skis!

" This plot twist sets the tone for a dynamic film full of unpredictable turns, murders, and betrayals.

Director Glen's masterful blending of the typical 007 thrilling action setpieces within a lightning quick and razor sharp narrative makes The Living Daylights a winner - one of the most fresh, vibrant and resonant Bond films to date, and ideal viewing for those seeking more substance instead of fantasy escapism without sacrificing the larger than life enjoyment factor of the series.

Bond movies have fallen so far from what made them so enjoyable – James Bond uses gadgets, kicks ass, foils the villain, and gets the girl.

The plot here is actually intriguing, and neither too convoluted or too thin, and keeps you interested from start to finish.

Moreover, the scene where the British safe house is penetrated is worth watching for its brutally realistic fight sequences.

I enjoyed several of Roger Moore's films, but most had an isolated, dull feel to them.

With strength, darkness and the right amount of charisma, he is a good Bond although Brosnan, Connery and Craig are superior and more enjoyable to watch.

I won't spoil it for you, but it is one of the wildest and most thrilling death struggles I have ever seen.

From its pre-title sequence, in which Bond and several allies parachute over the rock of Gibraltar, to its stunning car chase staged across the frozen Alps, director John Glen infuses his production with a scope and balance that at least attempts to keep the camp elements at bay.

After the departure of Roger Moore with the rather mundane "A view to a kill" It was good to see a change from the almost comedic atmosphere Moore seemed to carry about with him.

The new Moneypenny and Felix Leiter are both bland; the latter though has about five minutes or less of screen time.

There is a lot to like about The Living Daylights, but it certainly is not my favorite 007, still worth the watch if you are a fan of the franchise.

tedious monotony.

Compared to the likes of other, more formulaic Bond films, such as the more recent "Tomorrow Never Dies" and "Die Another Day", the storyline is less aimed at entertaining it's usual audience with quirky double entendres and recurring action and scenes, and more focused at presenting a web of conspiracies and intrigue, closer to that of the novels.

From the start they were confusing, and in the end you know you would be better off without having ever seen either of the two.

His Bond is more fleshed out - in Licence he is a bore: too dark, too mad, and just unappealing.

Embedded with thrilling actions, a tense yet quite unpredictable/creative plot plus a dreamy final song at the end, this film is one of the best.

Finally, the scripts were being written in committee and were rather disjointed, though that is far less evident here than in the next one.

, straight into the credits and one of the coolest and most exciting theme tunes of the series.

However, those scenes are about the best thing you can find in this mostly dull Bond film.

But although Dalton is a great actor and is also very handsome,he just is too dull and unromantic.

The living Daylights is a fine addition to the genre and it's an action packed thrill ride with a gritty edge.

Also the film is far from boring with many memorable moments to set it apart from other Bond-films.

This has great action, great storyline and a great Bond girl in Maryam D'abo, only the villains let it down, they are too boring, not as bad as Jonathon Pryce in Tomorrow Never Dies though.

The only remotely exciting thing about the film was the performance of Joe Don Baker as a renegade arms dealer.

His intense acting style and the fact that he was known for playing brooding characters meant that his Bond was immediately set apart from his predecessor.

Even though Moore's last outing was absurdly over the top, but enjoyable, he was way way too long in the tooth to carry on playing as Bond.

" But the plot merely recycles old material and throws in the latest flavor of the month (the mujahidin) to seem topical, and frankly I expect something more entertaining and intelligent than that from a Bond film.

This film is just pretty consistently entertaining and great.

Maryam D'Abo as the cellist gets a great part, her courage is stunning the armed rebels who were about to withdraw.

It's brimming with colorful and fascinating cinematography by cameraman Alec Mils.

The villain's motivations and ultimate goal are never made completely clear, rendering the story's many twists and turns confusing.

Summary: All in all, not a bad effort, with a credible storyline and a globe-trotting narrative that builds nicely to an exciting conclusion.

Dalton's unique acting style coupled with a gripping plot, an excellent cast of characters, genuinely exciting plot twists, and surely the coolest car in the history of the Bond films sets this one apart from all the others.

Timothy Dalton channels more emotion into one expression than Roger Moore summoned in seven films, and the way his Bond develops relationships makes this a deeper and more enjoyable character study than any other Bond film.

Even John Barry's music, in his final contribution to the series, is a fresh and exciting affair - blending high tempo action cues with his usual gift for generating a sense of foreboding and pathos in equal measure.

Starring a stage actor who looks slightly too earnest to be fully enjoyable as 007, this outing commits the unforgivable crime of featuring a monogamous Bond; a blatant attempt by the producers to discard all that has gone before.

The plot is somewhat convoluted and tedious and it goes on much too long.

Still, the movie is worth watching especially during a Bond filmfest.

With Dalton being so serious it could be said that this is just too much like a straight action film and fails because he just acts straight faced all the time, this is partly true but he does actually complete a bit of a enjoyable adventure by the end.


If there was a weakness, it could be contributed to a stodgy mid-section and a feeling of being a bit long in the tooth.

There is also the suspenseful music used in the desert sequences that, while featuring the synthesizer feel of the action scenes, still feels in place and reminds the listener of Barry's classic suspense music.

This is a more unassuming, intense Bond than Moore although Dalton still manages to bring much of the self assured confidence we've come to expect from Ian Fleming's iconic creation, and for my money is the most underrated in the role.

Other than that, totally enjoyable.

TLD's plot, while somewhat difficult to follow, is nonetheless interesting and full of real twists that are often hard to find in Bond movies.

His movies, while mostly entertaining, were not very easy to take seriously.

This is represented by a much more complex Bond than ever before, Dalton plays a Bond more evocative of the literary character than that of the one dimensional, often monosyllabic Bonds of the sixties and seventies.

The picture with a low-key intrigue contains sensational pursuits , silly set pieces, great stunts, frantic action packed , amazing gimmicks and stimulating images like are the happenings on the snow pursuits , the breathtaking aerial scenes, and the Afganistan fights .

Overall, it's sad that Dalton's first outing as 007 comes in such a boring, hum-drum movie.

We get a thrilling chase in the pre-credit sequence, an awesome snow chase with Bond and Kara riding on a cello, and an engaging climax with Bond and Necros hanging on an airplane.

John Glen should also be congratulated for making the 25th anniversary Bond film such an enjoyably exciting cinema going experience.

It's a globe-trotting adventure, packed with action, intrigue, romance, and plenty of engaging characters who spend the movie double-crossing each other.

The complex plot is well-executed, if somewhat confusing to follow.

The plot was brilliant and unlike some Bond film's didnt get boring and predictable half way through.

For the most part, Dalton's Bond is rather dull.

I enjoyed Living Daylights, from the action packed start sequence onwards it feels like a proper spy action yarn.

the plot is more intriguing.

Though I thoroughly enjoyed the movie the story is difficult to follow and I did not really piece it all together the first time through.

I don't consider myself a Bond fan really, but I still enjoyed it.

Instead it was a very dull ending.

Joe Don Baker goes beyond the realms of craziness and it is this that contributes to an altogether entertaining villain.

He was intense, more human, the glitter was still there in Bond's eyes, and the cheeky one-liners were missing.

The writing is pretty good, there are some dodgy lines but many of the dialogue heavy scenes are engaging.

Although the Roger Moore era (1973-1985) is my favorite stretch of the franchise, mainly because they're so all-around entertaining, Roger was just too old in 1987 to continue in the role (he was 60 years-old).

Necros' attack on the safe house is nicely intense and gets gritty too.

Blending a fierce humanity with the character's suave wit and carefully masked animalistic fury, Dalton's Bond pulsates with a rare presence, making it an increasing shame he was only given one more chance to demonstrate such a compelling take on the conflicted spy.

This one is just boring.

But unfortunately, the latter scene only occurs after a large boring segment in Afghanistan.

The complex plot is well-executed, if somewhat confusing to follow.

I mean, we visit Chekoslovakia, London (of course), Tangiers in Morocco, Gibralter, Austria, and Afghanistan (a stunning performance from the 'should-be' Bond, Art Malik).

It's an explosive, action-packed ride from the glorious opening sequence through the ending, maintaining some level of (surprisingly effective) humor which was mostly included because the script was written, or edited, for Pierce Brosnan, who would only finally take over the role in 1995 for "Goldeneye", but largely disposing of the silliness and tackiness of the Moore era, and creating a stealthy, thrilling, effective, and ruthless Bond.

I rewatched Timothy Dalton's second Bond outing; the Death Wish-esquire Licence to Kill recently and really enjoyed it.

Worth watching!

+Dalton+Great finale+Unpredictable for the most part+Pacing & timely action-Veers off in the middle-Pushed romance7.3/10

as THE LIVING DAYLIGHTS stubbornly insists on plodding down the well-worn plot ruts of OCTOPU$$Y and A VIEW TO A KILL.

This isn't one of the better Bond movies but like all 007 adventures, it is worth watching.

The plot, while complicated, is very intriguing and it feels like a real spy thriller.

Enjoyable title song and stirring musical score fitting to action by the usual composer, the classic John Barry .

Interludes such as an exhilarating gadget laden Aston Martin car chase, a terse MI6 training exercise on the Rock of Gibraltar and a breathless airborne fistfight suspended from a plane's dangling cargo bag function credibly within the plot, instead of the usual sense of the plot being tailored around a series of setpieces, keeping the film entertaining while additionally believable as consequence.

The pre-opening theme sequence of this movie is not one to forget, and after that, Bond and Saunders on their mission in the dark of the night can be quite thrilling.

Other suspenseful highlights in the film include the chase through the snow (and on ice-covered water), and some airplane scenes towards the end.

Overall, this is a very strong, exciting and well made Bond film with a great plot.

Maybe, it goes like this, the director, John Glen even failed to create a compelling bond chapter let alone stage the newer addition with sparkly lights and bright colors.

For the most part the plot is absorbing and I felt drawn in to the complex nature of it, although unfortunately it does eventually becomes overly complicated and convoluted.

After a thrilling gunfight led of Kamran Shah against the Soviet base, Bond wins a duel against Necros and throws him off the plane.

The final chase scenes and battle are extremely well shot and exciting, the plane stunts are particularly good.

And in addition of the visually clarity and superiority "Living Daylights" has two more breathtaking elements, the best looked James Bond ever and great music married exceptionally with the action and romance scenes.

He and Dalton have an intense confrontation in a hotel room that's surely one of the best scenes in the franchise.

Although not one of the best of the movies, The Living Daylights is still enjoyable and certainly better than the so so; A View to a Kill, which indicated that something had to be done to inject something new in to the old formula, and for the most part this film did precisely that.

As a result of the fact that there's quite a lot to it, the plot sometimes does become more than a little bit tiring, and I have to admit that I was beginning to get bored before the climatic ending.

The Living Daylights has very exciting scenes and a very nice theme song.

There are the usual exciting action scenes, including an spectacular chase through the Russian mountains, with Bond and Kara ski-ing down the slopes on an open cello case.

Bond gives chase in a thrilling sequence where the only thing that matters is clinging on to dear life.

Yes he did get annoying, but that made his death all the more enjoyable for the audience.

Bond's association with Leonid Pushkin was also one of the most thrilling and interesting parts in the show.

The film will appeal to James Bond series's buffs but good for fans only ; because this one goes on far too long .

Lots of action and intrigue, and even more globetrotting than usual make this a very entertaining and enjoyable film.

He doesn't have the presence of Bernard Lee, but his pure CRABBINESS makes his portrayal very entertaining to watch.

for a brief period in an intense scene, gives us a glimpse which apparently is meant to make up for all the drama that they cared for up till now.

Having so many characters keeps us on the edge of our seat as to who makes it and who doesn't.